Story so far

In the [first post][tb-intro] on the ‘to be or not to be - Frozen’ series I wrote about my first impressions on why one might need to get into cryonics. In the [next post][tb-break] we deal with why it is important to break things down to make a better estimate. In the [post following that][prolty] we discuss using probability the relation between what cryonics costs us now as compared to the “value” of a life year.

We look at some criticisms and update our overall

Criticisms are got from various sources such as from [Robin Hanson’s][break-cryonics-down] post’s comments, articles I find on quora and so on.

Cryonics Scam article on medicalbag

There is an article titled: [“Cryonics Science or Scam?”][cryonics_scam]. First impressions: There are references. Good one. None of them listed next to the arguments made. Not good. A large difference between the cryonics blogs that I visit and this is that, it seems to be written with some foreplay. Giving lame introductions using movie titles. The author seems to have made up his mind.

Moving further, I gathered from this post that Alcor x-COO wrote a book called Frozen, where he defamed ALCOR. Alcor responded by [sueing the authors of the book][alcor-frozen] (one of them was the x-COO). Alcor has taken the efforts to explain what is wrong and how it is wrong [here][alcor-explanation]. The book, although it has references, seems to have twisted news articles to make things sound sensational for example:

ALCOR and related persons were involved in an “international illegal drug trafficking operation” and that “people associated with Alcor had been arrested in Florida on cocaine smuggling charges.”

Apparently according to the [alcor’s explanation][alcor-explanation]:

“a person associated with Alcor had been arrested in Florida on cocaine trafficking charges.” The book says specifically, “people [plural, implying a group or conspiracy] associated with Alcor had been arrested in Florida on cocaine smuggling charges.” Since no sources cited by Sanders Exhibit 1 describe any individual or group being arrested for cocaine smuggling, only one person, Mr. Affidavit of Dr. Brian Wowk, p. 4 Ruddel, being arrested for a different alleged crime, the statement in “Frozen” was made with knowing falsity”

There are quite some examples, where it seems like ALCOR is a front for sexual abuse, drug trafficking etc…

At this stage:

The court ruled simply that Alcor was unable at this stage of the lawsuit to prove the publisher and co-author acted with knowledge that the book was false when published.

The author has also given a public statement as can be seen [here][alcor-frozen] stating that his account on the abuse of Ted William’s body might not be true and that he also lied that the account was first-hand, in the book.

My verdict on Alcor: Alcor seems to be very explicit with their work. A lot seems to be in the open, like for example the whole affidavit, their stats and so on. Seems to exist with the idea of making a difference. It is an NGO. It is talked about by [Elizer Yudkowsky][cryonics-wiki]. It seems to be in the clear with regard to the book Frozen.

Coming back, the article claims that ‘freezing’ itself is a problem, that it creates irreversible damage. I do not understand the biology, and since I am counting on a future civilization to solve the problem, I will not go into it, especially after Eliezer Yudkowsky and Robin Hanson labor so much for it.

The article makes some useless points such as below:

Science often involves screening processes. There aren’t any with cryonics except whether or not one can pay. A candidate may have a disease, like spongiform encephalopathy, and by the time of their death, their brain resembles Swiss cheese, potentially incurable. However, if they can pay, they can be frozen.

I think the point with cryonics is that the one day far far away, we are going to know how to cure every single disease. At that stage unfreeze people and cure them. Another thing is that you are not only paying for yourself, you are paying for the technology to succeed. Primarily because its what your value system would want.

The article raises concerns regarding what one would do for money, work, friends etc., and other issues that might prop up after revival. If some advanced civilization is in the right mind to revive someone from life, it better have all of this figured out. Also, the revival cost and other things are expected to be paid by the compound interest money collects over long periods of time.

My verdict on the cryonics scam article: Good attempt, weak in many places, such as the TED williams part. This TED williams part has been refuted in [2012][alcor] and the article written more than a year later. So much so for research. They end with ‘what happens to one when they are revived’. I dont understand their discussion on biology, so I leave that part out. Putting my faith on Eliezer and the possibility of a future civilization which has conquered all diseases, [this article][cryonics_scam] can be left out of future discussions.

Open Issues

1) How does he determine the probabilities of each of the events. Some people estimate different probabilities. Whom to trust? Based on what?

2) The math is highly unclear, regarding calculating the present value of a life year after we have revived.

3) How many life years or how many people can one save with the same money one spends on cryonics. Why is it the best use of money?

4) Is this type of technology only going to be available to the wealthy?

5) Why would the future generation invest in reviving a only a few people?

6) what to do after being revived?

7) Cryonics is a scam! reading and writing about this [article][cryonics-scam]

8) handling parents and familia? Not allowing them to grieve [break-cryonics-down]:http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/03/break-cryonics-down.html [Normal-cryonics]:http://lesswrong.com/lw/1mc/normal_cryonics/ [get-frozen]:http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/12/we-agree-get-froze.html [cryonics-wiki]:https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Cryonics [alcor-faq]:http://www.alcor.org/FAQs/faq01.html [alcor-cryo-work]:http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/WillCryonicsWork.html [conan]:http://youtu.be/PF7NpKG_S8g [quora_elon]:https://www.quora.com/Will-Elon-Musk-do-a-Walt-Disney-and-freeze-himself-when-he-dies [cryonics_scam]:http://www.medicalbag.com/grey-matter/cryonics-science-or-scam/article/472333/ [tb-break]:/to-be-or-not-to-be-frozen-breaking-down.html [tb-intro]:/To-be-or-not-to-be-FROZEN.html [tb-prolty]:/to-be-or-not-to-be-frozen-prolty.html [alcor-frozen]:http://www.alcor.org/press/response.html [alcor-explanation]:http://www.alcor.org/Library/pdfs/Affidavit_July_2013.pdf